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The Thirty Million Line Problem

The Thirty Million Line Problem

Molly Rocket
11 HN recommenders · discussed 2018–2024
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About this video

Casey Muratori's long talk arguing that modern software has ballooned to tens of millions of lines because of hardware and OS diversity. He proposes a stable ISA for entire system-on-a-chip packages and recalls when games shipped with their own boot disk.

Why it appears in the archive

HN recommends it, long as it is, as an eye-opening rant on software complexity and why systems became so complicated.

AI-generated summary and labels from the source dataset; verify important details against the video. Source & credits.

From the Hacker News discussion

ropeadopepope · 2018-05 · strong rec

This may be a little off topic, but has anybody watched Casey Muratori's proposal on SoC ISAs[0]? The video is long, but it's worth watching all of it. It sounds to me like a SoC ISA could make docker obsolete. If it ever happens, anyway. [0]: [VIDEO]

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henning · 2024-10 · strong rec

Yes, modern computer systems are unbelievably complicated from the application level down to the hardware. The consequences are absolutely devastating. [VIDEO]

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meuk · 2018-10 · rec

I think the problem is that current OSes are too complicated. What does a common user really want? I'd say text editing, making presentations, multimedia, and browsing. While these sound like simple things, text editing usually happens in a Word-like format, which - from what I've heard - is ridiculously complex. The same thing holds for browsing (simple browsers don't exist anymore, and many use the same back-end for rendering). For multimedia, USB is very important, which is a very complicated format to use correctly. Then, there are tens of codecs and formats for multimedia, each with their own idiosyncrasies and ambiguities in the specs (or deviations from the spec that are so common that they are expected nowadays). The case is even worse when your OS is supposed to run on different hardware. I think this is the main reason that Apple, in general, has a much better UX: They only have to support a limited set of hardware. Casey Murati has a great rant about this: [VIDEO]

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worldsayshi · 2019-05 · rec

If you'd like to venture further into this rabbit hole I can recommend "Preventing the Collapse of Civilization": [LINK] And "The Thirty Million Line Problem": [VIDEO]

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dsego · 2019-10 · rec

Have you seen the 30 million line problem* by Casey Muratori (of Handmade Hero fame)? There is an argument that a lot of today's complexity in software is an (unnecessary) byproduct of changes in hardware design. * [VIDEO]

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scruple · 2020-01 · rec

There is a related Jonathan Blow talk titled "Preventing the Collapse of Civilization" [0] that I came across recently from a HN post. You might be interested in watching it. Also, Casey Muratori's talk titled "The Thirty Million Line Problem" [1]. [0]: [LINK] [1]: [VIDEO]

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stephc_int13 · 2020-05 · rec

A quite well-known rant from Casey Muratori about a very similar issue: [VIDEO] (For those who never saw it)

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JamesSwift · 2021-04 · rec

That might be what OS'es currently _are_, but I disagree that it is what an OS _is_. I think fundamentally an OS is as the OP uses it, a set of code that interfaces with all your hardware to make the computer function. Heres a good talk I came across in a HN comment a little while back [1] about how games used to be developed vs how they are today. [1] - [VIDEO]

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